Chat Transcript: April 15, 2001

Join the Eliterature Organization and trAce chat to warm us up for both DAC and E Poetry conferences! If you are coming to the conferences, warm up with your ideas and topics. If you aren't coming, get a taste of what will be covered: How has electronic literature changed in the last year or so? What are the new trends? What do you hope to gain from these conferences?

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Start log: Sunday, April 15, 2001 2:17:38 pm CDT

jennifur arrives.

Deena says, "Hi Jennifur!"

Deena says, "I am getting all the goodies ready for our chat..."

jennifur says, "Hi Deena !! I guess I'll finally get to meet you next week"

Deena hands over a nice plate of easter eggs

Deena says, "Yep. Are you Jennifer Ley?"

jennifur says, "yes :) crawling out from under a ton of work "

Deena says, "Me too. I can't believe the amount of work I have to get away to do this..."

jennifur says, "me too ... are you at DAC now??? how is everyone"

Deena says, "Well, Dac is after EPIC, so I haven't started my epic journey yet. Are you just going to EPIC? Or are you swinging through Boston for cyberArts and then to DAC?"

jennifur says, "just EPIC"

eena says, "Ahh... EPIC will be great. I can;t wait to meet everyone in the flesh!"

Deena says, "Where are you staying?"

jennifur says, "i'm at the Marriot and you?"

Deena says, "I think I'm in the Red Inn.. couldn't get with the Marriot prices... and couldn't find a roomie"

jennifur says, "i'm only spending two nights so it wsn't so bad"

MazThing pops in.

Deena says, "Hi maz!"

MazThing says, "Hi there, quiet here so far"

Deena says, "Yep, we don't really start for a couple of minutes..."

Deena hands round vinegar and wax and hardboiled eggs so we can decorate easter eggs

jennifur says, "hi Maz"

MazThing smiles and wonders if she knows (of) Jennifur?

jennifur puts on her rabbit ears and twitchy nose

MazThing looks quizzical MazThing says, "not THAT jennifur?"

Deena says, "Jennifer Ley, meet Maz "

MazThing says, "Hi Jennifer"

jennifur says, "do I know you Maz?"

MazThing says, "I wondered, pleased to meet you."

jennifur says, "Mez=Maz?"

MazThing says, "No, probably not, but I know OF you, recognise the name"

Deena says, "Oh no, here we go again..."

MazThing sighs and apologises once more for NOT being Mez

jennifur says, "uh oh ::))"

Deena giggles uncontrollably.

MazThing says, "if I could only learn to Mezangelle I could clean up as her double"

jennifur says, "no problem we can't all be mez"

jennifur says, "we'd like to be"

MazThing laughs

jennifur says, "but it's just not possible"

Deena hands round mez-doubling lenses to all

MazThing makes a mez all over the floor

Deena s covers them all with flour--or rather, the flowers for spring

MazThing says, "Well, where are the masses?"

jennifur says, "i wonder if many people will show up ... it's so gorgeous here"

Deena says, "We may have a light crowd as people are at Easter mass..."

Deena says, "I am having a hard time staying inside, it is sooo lovely out!"

jennifur says, "my flowers are going nuts ... it's so pretty"

MazThing says, "At least it's gone dark here and people have an excuse to be indoors, but yes, Spring has reached UK too"

Deena says, "Is it as green out there as it is here?"

Loss_Glazier quietly enters.

jennifur says, "Hi Loss :)"

Deena says, "Hi Loss! thanks for taking time out of your hectic schedule to join us."

jennifur says, "<< Jennifer Ley"

Loss_Glazier says, "greetings from the zone of frenzy"

Deena says, "We are really looking forward to E-Poetry"

jennifur says, "I bet you're going nuts "

Loss_Glazier says, "imagine the technical matters alone!"

Deena says, "This should be a wonderful conference, you have a lot of exciting people lined up!"

Deena says, "Yes, with all the computer issues...I wish I could bring a projector!"

Loss_Glazier says, "We have 150 registered so far"

jennifur says, "that is so wonderful !!"

Deena says, "Wow, that is great!"

Loss_Glazier says, "Not that there will be 150 there all at once"

Deena says, "lots of those folks will be from overseas, as well"

jennifur says, "yes I'm so excited about meeting everyone"

Loss_Glazier says, "Yes 13 countries ..."

Deena says, "Yes. And all will be wanting internet access, projectoprs, etc. Is SUNY helping?"

Loss_Glazier says, "including Brazil, Malaysia, Australia, France ..."

Deena says, "We are so complicated these days!"

Deena says, "Wow. That sounds like a wonderful mix of folks. You did some great international advertising! And this kind of conference is really needed. Why did you decide to have E-Poetry?"

elizabeth quietly enters.

Loss_Glazier says, "I felt that, though there have been a number of great digital conferences, that e-poetry was always just a small component of other conferences. I thought it was time for e-poetry to be the focus of an entire festival."

elizabeth says, "Hi Maz, Deena, all"

Deena says, "Hi elizabeth, we have Loss Glazier here talking about digital conferences"

Loss_Glazier says, "Hello"

elizabeth says, "Hello Loss, looking forward to the conference"

jennifur says, "Do you think one of the things that will come out of this conference is a sense of how much electronic tech has opened up the definition of poetry?"

Deena says, "With 150 people from 13 countries, I can see that you got a wider response. "

Margaret arrives.

Deena says, "Do you think that the role of poetry is burgeoning on the internet?"

MazThing smiles to Margaret

Deena says, "Hi Margaret, we are talking about the electronic poetry conference and the digital arts and literature conference"

Deena hands round easter eggs and chocolate bunnies and urges people to introduce themselves

Loss_Glazier says, "Yes, Jennifer, I think the definition is wider now. It is not just a novelty but already exists as existing forms of practice."

Margaret says, "Thanks Deena"

Deena says, "Yes, it seems like we are all taking our own definitions for electronic poetry. Now that we can add flash, animation, navigation, what is poetry becoming on the web?"

jennifur smiles a hello to Margaret

Deena says, "Jennifer, how has electronic technology opened up your own poetry?"

jennifur says, "Deena ... when I got my first amiga, which did text and animation (very rough stuff) I started to see the possibilities, but the web really changed things"

Deena says, "Yes, Jennifer, how has the web changed things? what other possibilities has the web wrought?"

jennifur says, "the web provided a distribution medium, a relatively cheap one. And html offered a relatively easy to learn method of presenting work but ... I'm going to sit on my hands now and listen to Loss :)"

Deena says, "Yes, I wonder if we could have brought 150 people together for electronic poetry BEFORE we has the web?"

Smiley_Guest quietly enters.

Loss_Glazier says, "I feel that poetry has not received the same amount of attention as other genres in the digital medium. (The same is true in print of course! How many poetry books receive reviews? Even in forward-looking publications.)"

jennifur says, "You can say that again Loss"

Deena says, "Hi Smiley_Guest, we are talking about roles of electronic poetry in the new media..."

Deena says, "Loss, right. We have long bemoaned the fact that digital literature gets very small press, and poetry has had even smaller press traditionally. Do you see any changes in that in the electronic opoetry?"

Deena says, "How are we getting electronic poetry out there, known, and appreciated"

Loss_Glazier says, "Deena, I'm not sure if this festival will mean more attention but I'd like to think of it as a celebration, by the artists themselves, of the possibilities of the genre."

Deena says, "Loss, I think this festival has done a lot to bring attention into electronic poetry. What a great way to celebrate. Loss, what are your goals for the e-Poetry conference?"

Loss_Glazier shares a URL. ( . Loss_Glazier says, "We definitely owe part of the momentum to the Web."

jennifur says, "it popped up behind the MOO window for me"

Loss_Glazier says, "Deena, it used to show on the right side. Now it opens a new browser window."

Deena says, "Ahh. The MOO has a new interface as of this morning. That is why it popped up behind this screen :)"

Loss_Glazier says, "Is there a way to use target to make it show up on the right?"

C&W Guest arrives.

Deena says, "Loss, I don't know, I will find out from Cynthia.."

Deena says, "Hi C&W, we are talking about e-Poetry 2001 Festival and DAC"

C&W_Guest says, "hi all"

Loss_Glazier says, "Greetings"

C&W_Guest says, "how did you find time for this loss?"

Deena says, "Loss, thanks so much for finding time!"

Loss_Glazier says, "Deena, you are welcome. Believe me I'm on a twenty-four hour clock now, making arrangements for 50 visiting poets from those 13 countries plus LOADS of technical equipment, catering, venues, receptions, beverages, etc. - even renting chairs! - for three full days of events"

Deena says, "Yes, my cybermountain was only 30 people and I nearly went nuts for weeks...Logistics are nightmares!"

Deena says, "Loss, all, what do we hope to gain from these new conferences? both e-poetry and Digital Arts and Culture"

Deena says, "I think one major plus is the outside publicity, to show that there is something exciting happening in tehse fields. I am also really looking forward to seeing people in the flesh, people I have worked with for a long time but have never *met*""

Deena implores forgiveness for her typing and hands round more hot cross buns

jennifur says, "so do we have a vga connection to whatever large thing we are showing our work on ?? "

Loss_Glazier says, "Yes, that is one of the amazing things. Many of the people at the festival (note to follow) have been collaborators in some cases for many years (tech savvy folks) yet this will be the first time for all to meet!"

MazThing makes her apologies as it's been a long day, but will look forward to catching up on the log in due course

Deena says, "What issues and insights do you hppe come out of this"

Deena says, "Meeting in the flesh will be enough for so many things, even if we don't have computers that work!, so you have accomplished a lot just by setting up the event, Loss!"

Loss_Glazier says, "I would like to energize our already-existing momentum by getting people together."

jennifur says, "I agree Deena ... I was just thinking that too !!"

Deena says, "Jennifer, why are you going? what do you hope to gain?"

Loss_Glazier says, "Jen, equipment will be good."

Deena urges the rest to introduce themselves and say if they are going to DAC or E-poetry

Deena says, "I think that this will be very energizing for all concerned, and I am interested in seeing people talk about their work.I have seen Alan Sondheim's, Talan's, Barry's, and Jennifer's work a lot, but I want to see how they interpret the work...It is so shockingly different to have someone perform an electronic piece than it is to see it on the page!"

jennifur says, "what about you Deena (I'm thinking of how to answer you in a few words)"

Margaret says, "It has been great listening to you but |I must be off now."

C&W_Guest says, "loss, it may be late in the day to ask this but is there any way for those of us like me who can't be there to participate?"

Deena says, "What amazes me is that everyone is doing such different work. Every piece seems to be unique. I want to find out how people see their works and where we think we can go from here."

jennifur says, "One of the main reasons I'm going is because I really like what SUNY has done in this field"

Deena says, "C&W, one of the reasons I dedicated this chat to these conferences is to give you a taste of the conference... What issues are you interested in?"

jennifur says, "Loss, Charles ... other people in the poets department are just wonderful. he energy up there is tangible" Deena leads three cheers for SUNY's energy!

elizabeth says, "hi, I'm going to epoetry as a kind of hanger-on; been seeing work through webartery, trace etc for quite a while.. Imade a few tiny web things but awaiting time to learn skills."

Loss_Glazier says, "C&W_Guest Sorry but not this time, it is a corporeal gathering. That was part of the energy I hoped to tap into."

Deena says, "it will be great to see you there, elizabeth. "

jennifur says, "looking forward to meeting you elizabeth"

Deena says, "Loss, won't there be a cd of many of these works?"

elizabeth says, "Me too, Deena, Jennifer ;-)"

jennifur says, "Flesh time really is different ... and I think a really necessary component when you do this work"

Deena says, "The digital arts and culture festival started in the same way, people wanted to find a way to connect in person. It helps to see what is going on, for sure."

nm ducks in.

Deena says, "Hi Nick, we are talking about the enrgy you get at conferences from meeting people in the flesh"

elizabeth says, "Am being summoned to eat -- flesh time I guess! -- till soon, everyone." elizabeth has disconnected.

nm says, "Sounds risque"

Deena says, "I guess you just had to be there :)"

Deena says, "Nick, you are going to DAC and E-poetry?"

jennifur says, "Energy also = generosity, intellectual curiosity, openess"

jennifur says, "that's what I meant anyway ... "

nm says, "Certainly to DAC, Deena. But no, I'm not going to make it to ePoetry"

Deena says, "And energy with new ideas, new collaborations"

Deena says, "I am taking the grand tour -- E-Poetry, boston cyberarts, and DAC... It was good to plan these close together, loss."

Deena says, "Nick, what do you hope to get out of DAC?"

nm says, "I'm not sure. I hope to have fun drinking Magic Hat Number 9 in the Brown graduate student pub with all my fellow bizarre e-lit authors."

jennifur says, "there you go Nick ... hehe"

Deena says, "Having fun is definitely a big part of getting together.

jennifur says, "Deena I'm going to run ... it's too gorgeous out to stay inside"

jennifur says, "See you in a few days :)"

Deena says, "I know, I am having a very hard time staying at my keyboard"

C&W_Guest says, "i'm going to have to leave, also"

Deena says, "I think we are all too keyed up about the upcoming events to chat..."

nm says, "I want to know how I can learn at least a bit about what I'm going to miss at ePoetry."

Deena says, "Loss, can you tell C&W where to get the CD? and could you tell nm what he is going to miss at ePoetry?"

nm had said, "I want to know how I can learn at least a bit about what I'm going to miss at ePoetry."

Loss_Glazier says, "I'm not sure yet where one can get the CD.There will be info on the EPC after the festival." nm says, "It'd be great if there were some reports or at least URL lists I could look at in the aftermath." Deena shares a URL. ( .

Deena says, "Yes, Loss, will there be a place to post papers?"

Loss_Glazier says, "Yes. It would make sense to have a list of papers at the EPC." I must say, however ...and this refers to a "note to follow" comment I made before that one of the characteristics of E-Poetry 2001 is a certain energy it will have ."as a poetry festival. (I tend to call it a festival rather than the conference.)"

Loss_Glazier says, "In a sense, this part might not be archivable."

Deena says, "yes. I am taking along handouts of my paper, mostly just URLs that I want to cite"

Loss_Glazier says, "I am looking forward to seeing the LIVE performance of many of these works by many of these artists we all know and respect .."

Deena says, "right. Nothing will match the face to face meeting, and sharing ideas and work. Just like nothing matches the live performances"

Loss_Glazier says, "and I'm looking forward to the performance, discussion, questions."

Deena says, "Nick has put together a great liverperformance for DAC,"

Loss_Glazier says, "I am quite hopeful it will be a very rewarding experience."

Deena says, "I am really looking forward to it as well... I wish we could bottle and sell some of that energy, though...."

Deena says, "Loss, even the advance publicity, the excitement before the event has been very rewarding!"

Loss_Glazier blushes

Loss_Glazier says, "That's great to hear."

Deena says, "SUNY has done a magnificent job of publicizing and working with electronic poetry! I don't think conference organizers knw how much they are apprecated."

Deena says, "Nick, how are the night at cybertexts going?"

Loss_Glazier says, "Yes, SUNY has a record of being supportive of innovative poetry and it is good that this has extended into the digital realm!"

nm says, "The nice thing about literature is that it is enjoyable in different ways. It's not a defect of ePoetry that the live elements of the festival can't be archived; but fortunately there are other ways to enjoy poetry and literature as well."

Deena says, "We have a very exciting lineup. reading poetry, interacting with electronic poetry, and hearing live readings are all very rewarding, but very different activities"

nm says, "Deena, the pieces for 'A Night at the Cybertext' are all on my hard disk (although some updates have been promised!) and we'll be ready to roll, or at least rehearse, when DAC gets going."

Deena says, "Great. I am looking forward to it. It is great, again that so many are going to both DAC and e-poetry."

Deena says, "We are doing a piggyDaC workshop for two days after DAC, so we can do even more intense looking at works in progress and make suggestions."

Deena says, "Well, I think the energy released at both events will reverberate throughout the year and result in even more wonderful digital works."

Loss_Glazier says, "Here here."

nm says, "I was mentioning, Loss, that unfortunatley I'm carless and finishing a book manuscript, not to mention involved in organizing two readings right after ePoetry. But I'm really looking forward to at least having ePoetry be a help to me in locating good works to enjoy online. That's one of the real benefits of a festival or conference involving online art & lit. "

Deena says, "Yes. The cd will help a lot with finding works online."

nm says, "Of course, it's better if you're there. Many of the pieces that are most interesting are personal recommendations, not citations in a paper."

Deena says, "It would also be good to get a list of URLs from people."

Deena says, "The Electronic Literature Directory helps, but it would be good to get reviews and previews of new material."

Loss_Glazier says, "Nick, You can also check out the EPC's E-Poetry list. It is meant to be a select list of some works we recommend to those who are interested."

Deena says, "Any URLs we should mention in the archive, Loss?"

Loss_Glazier says, "I am committed to constantly expanding the E-Poetry list so that it can be a resource that gathers such interesting work."

nm says, "Really? There's a way to help people feel like they can speak freely."

Loss_Glazier says, "As to URLs"

Loss_Glazier says, "E-Poetry 2001:"

Loss_Glazier says, "E-Poetry 2001 program:"

Loss_Glazier says, "EPC E-Poetry library:"

Deena says, "And of course the links to poetry are at"

Deena says, "Nick, the work you are doing will also help archive and present a lot of digital literature as well..."

nm says, "Excellent. It will also be nice to hear about some of the poets' faves at DAC."

Deena says, "Loss, the site is great, and thanks for the links!"

Deena says, "Yes, I'll be keeping a notebook of lots of stuff to immerse myself in later!"

nm says, "I hope so, Deena. It's a shame that a lot of important early work is inaccessable - Pisnky's Mindwheel, for instance; Thomas Disch's Amnesia, just to pick another example from the 'interactive fiction' category, also by a poet."

Loss_Glazier says, "What is your project, Nick?"

nm says, "We won't get all of that in The New Media Reader, but you have to start somewhere."

Deena says, "Yes, my display at DAC will be about threatened works, rather than extinct ones, but archiving and showing these inaccessible works is important."

nm says, "I'm editing, with Noah Wardrip-Fruin, an anthology of important print and electronic work in new media. It's a book and CD. The emphasis is historical, only going up to the early days of the Web."

Deena says, "These works need to be preserved and talked about. They did not get the distribution that the web provides"

nm says, "Definitely. And there are a lot of factors hindering them from being distributed today -- copy protection that make them unusable on modern computers, rights owned by companies who have no interest in seeing them distributed, etc."

Deena says, "When will your work be out, Nick?"

nm says, "By the end of 2001, we hope, Deena."

Deena says, "Yes, there is a lot of work under the surface there, gettting the rights, etc! Well, I think that DAC, E-potry, Nick's book, and others are going to help further a lot of new media work and generate interest and energy for finding ways to use the potentials in the new media."

Loss_Glazier says, "Sounds great!"

nm says, "Some of it simply won't be preservable, at least not in a way that any real number of people will have access to the material. But we should make an effort. Of course, if we spend all out time archiving and thinking about preservation we won't have time to write new work. The article is at"

Deena says, "Yep. there needs to be a balance. But jsut knowing that the works exist is a major accomplishment, and a very valuable contribution to the field."

Deena says, "Shall we cut this chat a little short so we can all get to work to make it happen? Thanks so much for taking the time to come Loss, and share your enthusiasm. The conferences should be great!" Loss_Glazier says, "Looking forward to seeing you there! (The festival will include a lot of time for socializing so that we can all hang out a bit!)"

Fortunately I see some people in library sciences have been assigning my article about preserving the Web, at least , so I think some interest is being kindled in the fields that now work to preserve and organize print documents."

Loss_Glazier says, "There are no concurrent sessions, either; I thought this a good way for each artists to get the full attention of the others."

Deena says, "Great. I didn't want to miss a thing!"

nm says, "Yes, good chatting, and good luck with the festival, Loss."

Loss_Glazier says, "nm, which article?"

Loss_Glazier says, "I wd like to look it up."

Deena says, "Nick the URL was chopped off, there, co"

Deena says, "could you repost?"

nm says, ""

Brock quietly enters.

Brock says, "Greetings"

Deena says, "Hi Brock, we are just clsoing down from the eliterature chat...But you can see the archive at"

Brock says, "Hello Deena, do you remember me, from the Cybereffort: love or money discussion."

Deena says, "Sure do.. that was a great discussion :)"

Brock says, "The Brock University moo was really excited to see TrAce and I think a bunch of us will join Lingua..."

Deena says, "Wonderful. the MOO has a new interface as of today"

Brock says, "Since Brock U moo was for only one class, and a bunch of us are encore addicts! I love the version 3.0"

Deena says, "We will have chats again on May 5, and May 18..."

Brock says, "Very clean, and modern looking, but I like the signposts better than the arrows."

Deena says, "Other chats are in the trAce room"

Brock says, "good! Thank you."

Deena says, "Right. I think we can close the chat early today, to let everyone work on getting to the festival and DAC." "Thanks for coming and sharing all your ideas. It will be great to see you!"

Deena hands round a parting glass.

nm says, "Bye, and thanks for running the chat, Deena."

Loss_Glazier says, "Goodbye all. Best wishes!"

Deena says, "Sure. see you all soon!"

Loss_Glazier says, "Very soon!" End log: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 2:51:27 pm CDT


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